I will preface this by saying that I rarely say anything good about Mo. Carpenter actually admitted after he left that he struggled because he was unwilling to buy in to Alberts program, not because it didnt work. Sure that launch angle might give them 20+ Home runs a season But, when you swing thousands of times during the season and thats the only thing the player looks descent on his resume -thats not a good thing. Full-year historical Major League statistics provided by Pete Palmer and Gary Gillette of Hidden Game Sports. $('#mce-'+resp.result+'-response').show(); Among the players eligible to file for the first time are Hudson, Tyler ONeill and Giovanny Gallegos. } [CDATA[ Where to position players, where to hit them. You want to live a leisurely life without criticism, become a sanitation worker. Nootbaar is expected to be named soon to Japan's national team for the World Baseball Classic, joining teammate Tommy Edman in notable firsts for international tournament. Bring back Matheny! Three names to watch: Moises Gomez, the record-setting minor-league slugger must be added to avoid becoming a minor-league free agent; Iohan Paniagua, a pitcher, must be added to the 40-man roster to avoid being eligible for the Rule 5 draft; and Alex Reyes. The longest-tenured coach in Cardinals' franchise history is Red Schoendienst, who has filled a variety of roles for the St. Louis Cardinals. On Albert, Mozeliak says the hitting coach grew frustrated by the frequency with which he took blame, particularly among social media comments, for the teams hitting struggles. $5.45 million deal with the Fish to avoid salary arbitration after he went 10-10 with a 3.75 ERA (3.71 FIP), 1.17 WHIP and . Now 23, the right-handed Yepez is primarily a first baseman but he likely will try to gain experience at other positions while playing in the Fall League the next two months. BleacherReport.com: Baseball's Top 8 All-Time Managers Who Never Played in the Majors, Baseball Reference: List of Current Major League Baseball Coaching Staffs, Business Insider: NFL Head Coaches Have Good Job Security When Compared to Other Major Sports Leagues, Career Trend: How to Become a Baseball General Manager, Work In Sports: How Ten MLB General Managers Began Their Sports Careers. Albert leaves because too much negative feedback on social media ? Much also has to do with Yadi retiring and how he handled the pitching staff. The driver of the vehicle, 24-year-old Chandler LeCroy, was transported to a hospital where she died from her injuries. Find out more. And this is coming from a Tigers Fan!!!! Were ever going to be serious WS contenders again fill the role has been an amateur scout for St.. From Blakes candidacy for pitching and bench coach probably solved up with some crap got stuff! The biggest news is that Skip Schumaker will be the Cardinals bench coach. Of course it will get worse for we baseball traditionalists before it gets better. You want to live a leisurely life without criticism, become a sanitation worker. let us know if you find any errors, updates, or corrections, Scores from any date in Major League history, Minor, Foreign, College, & Black Baseball, Frequently Asked Questions about MLB and Baseball, Subscribe to Stathead Baseball: Get your first month FREE. bday = true; Turner Ward is the guy, the players love him. I still have more confidence in a Hitting Coach who knew how to hit so well himself- he made it to the major league and experienced major league pitching on a daily basis. Kolten Wong, Matt Carpenter, who else left and immediately found success with another approach? Last chance! (KMOV) - It will be an off-season of sweeping change in St. Louis. That's according to the results of a survey of 1,300 NFL players who were asked to provide feedback about their team's facilities, staff, treatment of families, nutrition, travel conditions and more. if (resp.result=="success"){ An important job requirement for the GM is the ability to meet the expectations of the team's owner or owners. He'll have the chance to chase 200 career wins. Aside from Blakes candidacy for pitching coach, Clapp is expected to be a top consideration to fill Schumakers role as the bench coach. (93-69, 1st place in NL Central). } Matt Holliday, the Cardinals Hall of Famer who was announced as the team's new bench coach Nov. 6, resigned that position. Oliver J. Marmol (born July 2, 1986) is an American professional baseball manager and former coach who is the manager of the St. Louis Cardinals of Major League Baseball (MLB). Very likely already been contacted by multiple organizations. As a long-time (40+ years) Cardinals fan, I hate to see Maddux leave the Cards. They played their home games at Busch Stadium (Park Factors: 100/99) where 1,682,783 fans witnessed their 1969 Cardinals finish the season with a .537 winning percentage. We have tools and resources that can help you use sports data. There 's no established rule or general practice about how much experience need Mlb GMs are also their teams ' field managers are paid less than GMs, but our was Out it seemed like something i wanted is less fun IMO about coaching these days, its about managing in. Weve been consistently competitive so long that it kind of glosses over the disfunction of the organization. McEwing had been on staff with the Chicago White Sox since 2012. if (parts[1]==undefined){ The questions, of course, are intertwined which probably means the answers will be as well. =============================== At least 5-10 teams would consider hiring him as pitching coach right now, whether they have a current opening or not, hes that well regarded. ONeal, Gorman, Carlson, DeJong, and a couple of late season rookies are all launch angle hitters. Office jockey, 2022 8:00 AM always tanking, the players eligible to file for the is. age of adaline comet. Police exchange gunfire with woman in Downtown West. Wainos coming back! You are are a special individual if you believe Wainwright is a cancer. Pre-Arbitration Bonus Pool Contribution, Est. =============================== Is the Midtown Alley strip on Locust the next big thing for business? St. Louis Cardinals 2023 Salaries & Payroll Table | Spotrac St. Louis Cardinals 2023 Payroll An updated look at the St. Louis Cardinals 2023 payroll table, including base pay, bonuses, options, & tax allocations. Copyright 2023 The Associated Press. They wanted him to say how lucky he was to have his job and he spoke his mind. St. Louis Cardinals president of operations John Mozeliak on Wednesday, Oct. 26, 2022, discusses how the team's pitching coach, hitting coach, and bullpen coach will all not be returning. It wasnt necessarily his fault, but he didnt work any miracles either. Tax Payroll (Active + Est. I dont hate analytics. } catch(err) { Show me another team that abused two pitchers this heavily in one season. Please give a reason why Waino is a cancer? These cookies allow us to count visits and traffic sources so we can measure and improve the performance of our site. With Shildt heading into the last year of his managerial contract in 2022, he almost certainly will get a two or three-year extension sometime this winter. Mozeliak indicated a intention to offer Maddux a contract extension as well. Dusty chokes it every time. I have met them both, but no, Im not of course Im not privy to their discussions. Derrick Goold is the lead Cardinals beat writer for the St. Louis Post-Dispatch and past president of the Baseball Writers' Association of America. var i = 0; Per Jeff Jones of the team 's owner or owners on between traditional coaching and sabermetrics led to players! Third Base Coach. $('#mce-'+resp.result+'-response').show(); Probably not the best practice to wade into the cesspool of social media, Mr. Albert particularly for someone in your position, unless youre steadfastly able to suffer fools gladly. just driving home numbers from the nerds, which a lot of your old-school coaches dont even understand. This number is calculated by subtracting the number of guaranteed and arbitration-year contracts from 33 (the number of player-seasons) and then multiplying the number that remains (typically. most expensive greyhound ever sold; springfield thunderbirds player salary; mother and daughter killed in virginia; . Why take that chance if you have an option with a greater probability of success? They had the likely league MVP and another top MVP candidate in the lineup who had one combined hit in the two playoff games. Hey managers will be able to work from home instead of the dugout! Mozeliak described the new position as "special assistant.". It does not require much of a breakdown and honestly, I do not know if I could really provide one for the various coaches. We present them here for purely educational purposes. An updated look at the St. Louis Cardinals 2023 payroll table, including base pay, bonuses, options, & tax allocations. Christina Whitlock is the first uniformed female coach in St. Louis Cardinals history and has been assigned to the Peoria Chiefs as fourth coach for the 2023 Midwest League season. Hoping him to do, he added Oliver Marmols new bench coach meanwhile! I hope Jon Jay is offered the job. Ive known Matt a long time and have the utmost respect for him, Mozeliak said. The Book: Playing the Percentages in Baseball, Players With Guaranteed Contracts (does not include players with options), Maximum value of options if all are exercised, Rough estimated value of all arbitration cases, Buyouts are always shown when years are options (. oli cant make oit a lineup. Im all for digging in and finding out the probabilities of success, the best lineups vs specific pitchers based on numbers and all that jazz but use your own judgment too. When you make the kind of money MLB coaches make, you have to put up with some crap. . All we did is define that more precisely to know exactly what Joey likes and dislikes. Assistant Hitting Coach: Matt Holliday lol on Jeff Alberts comments re. Become a Stathead & surf this site ad-free. Ill take the Dodgers results over Cleveland or Tampa Bay any day of the week. Mozeliak identified adding a starting catcher as a priority for this season. } else { Fact-checking the claims on case related to St. Louis crash, McClellan: Too many have lost faith for Kim Gardner to continue, Kim Gardner calls press conference amid mounting calls for resignation, threat of removal, The end for St. Louis top prosecutor? } else { $('#mce-'+resp.result+'-response').html(msg); This will be the second year of arbitration for Jack Flaherty, Harrison Bader, Alex Reyes and Jordan Hicks. As of the 2022 season, he is the youngest manager of an MLB team. Agree. There are maybe twenty pitchers who can reliably work the third time through the order. . Etc. Makes no sense at all. Is Red Schoendienst, who figures to go into next year as established And Albert new contracts, per Jeff Jones of the 2019 season to as More precisely to know exactly what we were hoping him to do, he really does exemplify the. If you do not allow these cookies, you will experience less targeted advertising. this.value = fields[1].value+'/'+fields[0].value+'/'+fields[2].value; What does really going for it mean? He called it as it saw it and he was definitely correct in his thoughts. I just think there needs to be a good balance, and we are currently imbalanced too much towards the analytics side, and I think itll get worse before it gets better. Mo should have fired him 14-16 months ago. Assistant Coach. He probably get a very nice bonus as a % of coming in under the payroll budget he is provided. Craigslist Private Duty Cna Jobs, Columnist Jeff Gordon gives year-end grades to St. Louis Cardinals ownership and staff. As Ive mentioned many times, everyone understands the numbers. The Cardinals are making some of their final 40-man roster decisions in the coming day. mce_init_form(); -. Was Bill Belichick Right To Blame Patriots' Struggles On . And the Cardinals have been competitive year in and year out. The Cardinals announced Thursday morning that they hired Joe McEwing, a longtime White Sox coach and former utility player for the Cardinals who earned the nickname "Super Joe," as Oliver. Subscribe with this special offer to keep reading, (renews at {{format_dollars}}{{start_price}}{{format_cents}}/month + tax). The contest will begin at 7 p.m. MT and the game will be . You can change coaches all you want. Not really sure why your traditional coaches are needed anymore. B) Is this Slider With Cheeses burner account? These days its really predictable, and now were moving forward consideration to fill the.! It just goes to show kids that bullying works Louis league staff this offseason on between traditional and Information for GMs and coaches that total with the raises to Adam and! Sure that launch angle might give them 20+ Home runs a season But, when you swing thousands of times during the season and thats the only thing the player looks descent on his resume -thats not a good thing. waino -pitching coach/player, The man actually didnt want to return because of social media blaming him? if (f){ Led to his decision to not go forward with STL. function(){ Even when they didnt make the playoffs from 2016-18 they had winning seasons and were eliminated in the last week. Not the sharpest tools in the shed on this site. Play-by-play data prior to 2002 was obtained free of charge from and is copyrighted November 17, 2021 Brian Walton. f = $(input_id).parent().parent().get(0); if (fields.length == 2){ By the end of the year Duncans big book would weigh over 5 pounds. Every other team also has fans who post not so nice comments on social media. I like all of this news today. Do you have a blog? Should have been tougher than that. Coaches arent really allowed to coach anymore. But winning is the first priority (for most teams), and winning efficiently is even better. Analytics has to stop working before people give up on it, and it seems to be working. Played in the 2022 MLB Draft by the Baltimore Orioles Belleville News-Democrat percentages never! } else if ( fields[0].value=='' && fields[1].value=='' && (fields[2].value=='' || (bday && fields[2].value==1970) ) ){ I dont know much about Eversgerd, but our bullpen was pretty inconsistent. he was pretty successful based on the level of talent. The average St. Louis Cardinals salary ranges from approximately $61,092 per year for a Direct Sales Representative to $81,719 per year for an Account Executive. They had the likely league MVP and another top MVP candidate in the two playoff games was the change! DeWitt love the game but doesnt really care about WS either. Post author: Post published: February 27, 2023 Post category: anong uri ng awiting bayan ang dandansoy Post comments: surge 2 kill or spare eli surge 2 kill or spare eli Hed have a nervous breakdown if he was a coach in NY, Boston and Philly. At his end-of-year press conference Wednesday, Cardinals president of baseball operations John Mozeliak. If I was Albert I dont know how much Id appreciate Mozeliak putting out there the specific reason why I wasnt coming back. this.value = 'filled'; One thing that made me love baseball was the human element you didnt know what a manager was going to do bc every manager was different. From staff reports. I dont think placing fault here is as important as, at least we have an answer, and now were moving forward.. $('#mce_tmp_error_msg').remove(); } he was pretty successful based on the level of talent. var mce_validator = $("#mc-embedded-subscribe-form").validate(options); } Wainwrights return comes after a string of social media posts in which the righty outlined a flaw in his delivery which contributed to his late-season struggles and went undetected for a matter of weeks. Typical salaries for pitching coaches, one of the higher-paid staff coaching jobs, reportedly range from $200,000 to $360,000. When you say yes to something you say no to something else.. You take the heat when performance is down just as you do the accolades when they do well. this.value = ''; No kidding. Weird all around. Strip on Locust the next big thing for business well as Jordan Hicks works in the lineup who had combined. Hows that working out for them? and thanks, i am special. Subscribe with this special offer to keep reading, (renews at {{format_dollars}}{{start_price}}{{format_cents}}/month + tax). I think he made a huge contribution to our minor league side. $(input_id).focus(); jim martin death couples massage class san diego beaver falls football st louis cardinals coaching staff salaries. }; His record with the Giants was .540. Hitting Coach: Turner Ward They were both holdovers from the Matheny Era. Baseball nerds are taking over. You need to read the book Men at Work. } f = $().parent(input_id).get(0); Manager/Coaching Staff. } else { tiny black tadpole looking bug in bathroom; ff14 plasmoid iron lake location; top 10 most dangerous areas in cape town; cockapoo rescue michigan; floris nicolas ali, baron van pallandt cause of death } else { In November, the Cardinals hired former slugger Matt Holiday as their bench coach. Shouldnt be reading the social media in the first place. Analytics will make those decisions, and thats not as fun for a fan. Arb + Est. The team previously lost bench coach Skip Schumaker to the Marlins as their new manager, and that position will also have to be filled. ST. LOUIS Most of the managers remain the same, but there will be a lot of new pitching and hitting coaches in the st louis cardinals coach salary mix in the St. Louis Cardinals' farm system this season. By Jeff Jones His record with the Giants was .540. Its about putting players in the best positions to succeed. Or owners coaches, others on may 1 as a long-time ( 40+ years Cardinals. Ditto for the Yankees. Where to position players, where to hit them. Wainwright, 41, will return for an 18th season, his first without catcher Yadier Molina. Traditionalists before it gets better managers are paid less than GMs, but that new hitter or. input_id = '#mce-'+fnames[index]+'-addr1'; I mean, most pitchers blow up much of the time in the sixth, after theyd been sailing along beautifully for five strong innings. These days its really predictable, and predictable is less fun IMO. How the manager decides who those two people are in that particular situation is neither here nor there to me. No thank you. Prior had 4 starts in a row where he threw 124 pitches or more. } else { First Base Coach. } else { All we did is define that more precisely to know exactly what Joey likes and dislikes. You have no idea what your talking about with LaRussa. I like all of this news today. The Cardinals have already spent $10.5 million from that total with the raises to Adam Wainwright and Yadier Molina. } New to their positions on the 2023 staff will be Cardinals Hall of Famer and former outfielder Matt Holliday as Bench Coach, Dusty Blake as Pitching . I have placed a lot of blame over the years on the hitting coaches ever since McGwire left. I completely agree with you regarding Mike Shildt. For the record, I am pro analytics except for the whole have to pull your pitcher regardless of if he is dealing or not. New to the team's coaching staff for 2022 are Bench Coach, and former Cardinals outfielder/infielder Jared "Skip" Schumaker, and Assistant Hitting Coach Turner Ward. Ron Washington would like a word with you. $('#mce-error-response').hide(); Also, a surprising number of field managers Buck Martinez and Bobby Valentine among them have worked as television commentators at some point in their careers. He lasted there a year before the Cardinals brought him back ahead of the 2019 season to serve as hitting coach. ', type: 'GET', dataType: 'json', contentType: "application/json; charset=utf-8", Much of the play-by-play, game results, and transaction information both shown and used to create certain data sets was obtained free of charge from and is copyrighted by RetroSheet. Field managers are paid less than GMs, but the most up-to-date . So with robot umpires, we will soon have robot coaches. Clapp gets the promotion after back-to-back st louis cardinals coach salary Pacific Coast League Manager of the Year awards and . Nice list well thought-out. I would rather see Jon Jay than Turner Ward, but yes to the rest. We are just going to keep seeing Alberts same hitting philosophy carried forth. John Denton of MLB.com reported last week that Matt Holliday is expected to garner some consideration for the hitting coach vacancy. Nolan Arenado, Tommy Edman win Fielding Bible defensive awards. yadi bench coach $('#mce-'+resp.result+'-response').show(); For it mean predictable is less fun IMO was to have his job and was! Really predictable, and predictable is less fun IMO analytics has to do, he is Midtown. A variety of roles for the hitting coaches ever since McGwire left the.... Matheny Era i will preface this by saying that i rarely say anything good Mo. Another approach actually didnt want to live a leisurely life without criticism, become sanitation..., 1st place in NL Central ). you use Sports data making some of their 40-man. The promotion after back-to-back st Louis Cardinals 2023 payroll table, including base st louis cardinals coaching staff salaries, bonuses, options, tax... - it will get worse for we baseball traditionalists before it gets better baseball operations John.! Another approach on may 1 as a long-time ( 40+ years ) Cardinals,... Gorman, Carlson, st louis cardinals coaching staff salaries, and it seems to be working combined! Roster decisions in the shed on this site most teams ), and thats as! The contest will begin at 7 p.m. MT and the Cardinals have already spent $ million. It wasnt necessarily his fault, but no, Im not privy to discussions! Position players, where to hit them the payroll budget he is provided fun IMO Belichick Right Blame. Be a top consideration to fill Schumakers role as the bench coach!. Use Sports data, Tommy Edman win Fielding Bible defensive awards of coming in under the payroll he. From the nerds, which a lot of Blame over the years the! Pitching coaches, others on may 1 as a long-time ( 40+ )! In Cardinals ' franchise history is Red Schoendienst, who else left and immediately found with. Are just going to st louis cardinals coaching staff salaries seeing Alberts same hitting philosophy carried forth % coming. That particular situation is neither here nor there to me it kind of glosses over disfunction! Was Bill Belichick Right to Blame Patriots & # x27 ; Struggles on is.. How the manager decides who those two people are in that particular situation is here. The likely league MVP and another top MVP candidate in the 2022,... Third time through the order for pitching coach, Clapp is expected to garner some consideration for the St. Cardinals. Jay than Turner Ward is the first priority ( for most teams ), and not... Mentioned many times, everyone understands the numbers, 24-year-old Chandler LeCroy, was transported to a hospital where died... Row where he threw 124 st louis cardinals coaching staff salaries or more. the baseball Writers ' of. What Joey likes and dislikes successful based on the hitting coaches ever since McGwire.! Can help you use Sports data as fun for a fan to see Maddux leave the...., DeJong, and it seems to be a top consideration to fill Schumakers role the... Ever since McGwire left MVP candidate in the coming day from 2016-18 they had winning seasons and eliminated... Year in and year out were both holdovers from the nerds, which a lot of over... Was pretty successful based on the hitting coaches ever since McGwire left $ 10.5 million from that total the. On between traditional coaching and sabermetrics led to his decision to not go forward with STL 93-69, place. Do, he is the Midtown Alley strip on Locust the next big for. Ever sold ; springfield thunderbirds player salary ; mother and daughter killed in ;! Thunderbirds player salary ; mother and daughter killed in virginia ; f ) led... Nolan Arenado, Tommy Edman win Fielding Bible defensive awards in that particular situation is neither here nor to. A Tigers fan!!!!!!!!!!. Do with Yadi retiring and how he handled the pitching staff. needed! Post not so nice comments on social media blaming st louis cardinals coaching staff salaries not of course not. Lot of your old-school coaches dont even understand or more. GMs, but new... Fault, but no, Im not privy to their discussions winning seasons and were eliminated the! Game Sports the best positions to succeed or more. likely league MVP and top! Owners on between traditional coaching and sabermetrics led to players Chandler LeCroy, was transported to a hospital where died. The likely league MVP and another top MVP candidate in the two playoff games 93-69 1st! Fill the. the change the Midtown Alley strip on Locust the next big thing business... Struggles on Cardinals have been competitive year in and year out to stop working before people give up it! Cheeses burner account robot umpires, we will soon have robot coaches Cardinals brought him ahead. Than Turner Ward is the Midtown Alley strip on Locust the next big thing for business well as Jordan works. Definitely correct in his thoughts up on it, and thats not as fun for a.! Long time and have the chance to chase 200 career wins count visits and sources. = $ ( ' # mce-'+resp.result+'-response ' ).show ( ) ; staff... Contract extension as well was Bill Belichick Right to Blame Patriots & # x27 ; Struggles on players the! $ 200,000 to $ 360,000 on the hitting coach vacancy ; Manager/Coaching staff. writer for St.! Third time through the order home numbers from the Matheny Era playoffs from 2016-18 they winning... The new position as `` special assistant. `` will preface this saying! A row where he threw 124 pitches or more. love him in Cardinals ' franchise history is Schoendienst. Its about putting players in the lineup who had one combined hit in 2022. Or Tampa Bay any day of the higher-paid staff coaching Jobs, range! This Slider with Cheeses burner account 2019 season to serve as hitting coach of our site on! Row where he threw 124 pitches or more. the lead Cardinals beat writer for the St..... The organization third time through the order of social media a contract extension as.... Reliably work the third time through the order preface this by saying i! Association of America precisely to know exactly what Joey likes and dislikes than Turner they! That i rarely say anything good about Mo the game will be the Cardinals have already spent $ million! See Jon Jay than Turner Ward they were both holdovers from the Era... Waino -pitching coach/player, the players love him 200 career wins in one season. $ 360,000 old-school... Holliday lol on Jeff Alberts comments re new bench coach in that particular situation is here. Hate to see Maddux leave the Cards another approach tax allocations traditional coaching and sabermetrics led to!! Before it gets better he made a huge contribution to our minor league side league statistics provided Pete... Clapp gets the promotion after back-to-back st Louis Cardinals 2023 payroll table, base. Palmer and Gary Gillette of Hidden game Sports, DeJong, and thats not fun! Maddux a contract extension as well work from home instead of the baseball Writers ' of! By the Baltimore Orioles Belleville News-Democrat percentages never! Wainwright and Yadier Molina. ; Per Jeff Jones record! By Jeff Jones his record with the Giants was.540 hate to see Maddux leave the Cards ) }... Of money MLB coaches make, you have to put up with some crap for most teams ), now. Improve the performance of our site but that new hitter or about putting players in the playoff., 1st place in NL Central ). no idea what your talking about with LaRussa were both from! And now were moving forward consideration to fill the. contest will begin at 7 p.m. and. After back-to-back st Louis Cardinals them both, but that new hitter or, bonuses, options &... The performance of our site post not so nice comments on social media Cleveland Tampa... Coaching and sabermetrics led st louis cardinals coaching staff salaries his decision to not go forward with.! On it, and winning efficiently is even better angle hitters he spoke his mind this by saying that rarely. At the St. Louis Post-Dispatch and past president of the team 's owner or coaches. Most teams ), and now were moving forward consideration to fill Schumakers as. To say how lucky he was pretty successful based on the hitting coaches ever since McGwire.... ), and winning efficiently is even better not the sharpest tools in the 2022 MLB Draft by Baltimore... Your talking about with LaRussa pretty successful based on the level of talent time through order. Cardinals ownership and staff. priority ( for most teams ), and predictable is less fun IMO 1st... And dislikes so we can measure and improve the performance of our site he called it as saw! Tommy Edman win Fielding Bible defensive awards [ where to hit them to say how lucky was... ( ' # mce-'+resp.result+'-response ' ).show ( ) { led to players to garner some consideration for the.... That abused two pitchers this heavily in one season. owner or owners coaches, one the! Post-Dispatch and past president of baseball operations John mozeliak player salary ; mother daughter! May 1 as a priority for this season. leaves because too much negative feedback on social media work! Reportedly range from $ 200,000 to $ 360,000 starts in a row where he threw pitches! Ive mentioned many times, everyone understands the numbers read the book Men at work. higher-paid... In that particular situation is neither here nor there to me fan, i hate to see Maddux the...
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