Thanks for the tip. Stop all leaks with liquid or tape mastic or with permagum, which stays pliable and can be removed for access later. Seal smaller gaps in your furnace with regular silicone caulk. If you want then add a bracket to the bottom and back side as well. Planned Maintenance scheduled March 2nd, 2023 at 01:00 AM UTC (March 1st, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. We do get a small commission from any sales for our affiliates for which we link. Furnace Flues Require Special Sealing Techniques. WARREN26969 RYAN RDWARREN, MI 48091586-267-0259, ROCHESTER817 N. MAIN STREETROCHESTER, MI 48307248-852-4040. But opting out of some of these cookies may have an effect on your browsing experience. The costs of retrofits should be carefully weighed against the cost of a new boiler or furnace, especially if replacement is likely within a few years or if you wish to switch to a different system for other reasons, such as adding air conditioning. Distinguish your company as a progressive one with energy-efficient homes that also offer superior comfort. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. Its kind of like rain jacket material or thats what I thought when I first started getting it. Why does Jesus turn to the Father to forgive in Luke 23:34? Energy-efficiency improvements will save money on a new furnace or boiler, because you can purchase a smaller unit. Quadruple your inspection business and reduce your liability with the 10. The 2-inch wide tape will seal almost any small or medium-size hole, warp, or seam separation. Where the ends meet roll the 2 layers together a screw on either side holds a seal. Can non-Muslims ride the Haramain high-speed train in Saudi Arabia? It also includes the manual for the install and a picture of the brackets is in the "View All Photos.". You can even paint it to match your furnacecolor. The "brackets provided" would've just been two lengths of sheet metal, ~2" wide and a length an inch or so short of the depth of the unit. These inspections and repairs are a good investment in a comfortable and energy efficient home. Insulate that suction line to prevent moisture problems including rusting of the equipment. What type of bracket to use between furnace and evaporator coil unit? JavaScript is disabled. These come in spray cans and are available at any hardware store. No more of a pain than it being taped. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. FIGURE 3 (Installation of Furnace, . I dont use a mastic I use a metal bar and wrap the material around the bat and put 3-4 screws into it to hold it to the duct. 1 I'd recommend Not using any petroleum-based sealant on any surface subject to heat (it will soften and melt). How to derive the state of a qubit after a partial measurement? 20 0 obj << /Linearized 1 /L 331603 /H [ 696 184 ] /O 23 /E 110497 /N 4 /T 331159 >> endobj xref 20 14 0000000016 00000 n This is called creating a vapor barrier to prevent humidity in the air coming into contact with the pipe. 0:00 / 1:14 Furnace Coil Unit Install Hartman Heating 852 subscribers Subscribe 70K views 9 years ago This is the video of a Furnace Coil Unit Install. Air seal all holes and seams in the furnace cabinet with mastic, foil tape, or putty. Straighten bent panels and repair their seals. 2. 4. Has 90% of ice around Antarctica disappeared in less than a decade? Sealing the A-coil to the Furnace, what are you using with limited access? This category only includes cookies that ensures basic functionalities and security features of the website. I need to find brackets to attach the two units together. Regular silicone caulk can be used to seal smaller gaps in yourfurnace. The outer covering of flex ducts can tear, resulting in energy losses and even an accumulation of moisture between the duct's inner and outer liners, which leads to worse problems. There is a rubber gasket around it but still an open space around the copper pipe. Steam heating coils should generally have a gradual fall from the inlet to the outlet to ensure that condensate runs toward the outlet and does not collect in the bottom of the coil. They even organized an electrician to come an update all of my electrical to support the new systems and get up to code. Ever tried to pull tape of the back of a coil thats installed in a closet? Here's a list of what you'll need to repair such leaks in your customers' HVAC systems: Leaks in HVAC air handlers can usually be seen, felt and heard. Floor furnaces may have special venting problems because their vent connector exits the furnace close to the floor and may travel 10 to 30 feet before reaching a chimney. But now the tape is pop open because of strong air flow. These mid-efficiency appliances have a greater risk of depositing acidic condensation in chimneys, and the chimneys must be prepared to handle this corrosive threat. Call us for all of your emergency service needs at 1-800-762-0079! The lower values are for units installed outdoors because they have greater jacket heat loss. Seal smaller gaps in your furnace with regular silicone caulk. Rename .gz files according to names in separate txt-file, Story Identification: Nanomachines Building Cities. Than you will need some type of refractory-type caulking. Repair Clinic supports do-it-yourselfers of all abilities. If you're considering replacing or retrofitting your existing heating system, have the technician perform a combustion-efficiency test. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. The s-cleat and drive connections on ductwork are notorious for leaking. Roofing company came out and said the same thing (their minimum was $275 unfortunately), so went with the silicone route. Replace suction line grommet and insulation. I felt very comfortable with what I was buying. The base of the coil enclosure is placed flush against the downflow/horizontal furnace. Frequently the coils are made from copper, but steel and aluminum is also used. They were recommended by a family member for the old boiler furnace. This website uses cookies to improve your experience. What could cause dripping in duct when HVAC is running? I've got this job coming up next week and wanted to try something different. Aladdin has taken care of my heating and cooling needs for 35 years through two houses. This is called creating a vapor barrier to prevent humidity in the air coming into contact with the pipe. At least they gave the rest of the pipe/storm collar/rainguard an inspection too. Virtually anyone with do it yourself experience will be able to accomplish this task. Well worth the slight cost increase, but is U.V resistant and stays pliable indefinetly. They can be sealed with permagum, or with silicone for a permanent seal. I would use caution creating a solid connection to the furnace if you have metal trunks think of a base drum thats what the ductwork may sound like especially on startup and stop as the fan motor spins up and down there is usually a speed where it is out of balance and the noise can be irritating. When shopping for high-efficiency furnaces and boilers, look for the ENERGY STAR label. Make sure that all non-grille surfaces are insulated. The installer did a bad job and used tape and mastic to connect the units instead of connecting them with brackets as stated in the installation manual (even states that tape and mastic is improper installation). This is our first experience with Aladdin Heating & Cooling. An all-electric furnace or boiler has no flue loss through a chimney. Because the pipe gets hot, building codes usually require 1 inch of clearance from metal flues (2 inches from masonry chimneys) to any combustible material, including insulation. Upgrade your heating, ventilation and air conditioning (HVAC) system, and streamline your energy bill with these tips. How did Dominion legally obtain text messages from Fox News hosts? Transition box between furnace and coil. Thanks. Your plenum can run up to 200 degF. There are many advantages to using a wood-burning fireplace, including saving money on heating costs. Although older fossil fuel furnace and boiler systems have efficiencies in the range of 56% to 70%, modern conventional heating systems can achieve efficiencies as high as 98.5%, converting nearly all the fuel to useful heat for your home. %PDF-1.2 % I was thinking the statement and the diagram might be unrelated. Depressurize the backfill reservoir tank. Ducts are often damaged when people come in contact with them in storage areas, such as attics. Get product recommendations from HGTV editors, plus cant-miss sales and deals. Combustion gases leaking into the house can cause carbon monoxide poisoning. From reading some of the articles on this site you should know that anything that is below the dew point will sweat the moisture out of the air and this will cause moisture problems. Dust and dirt. Make sure that all interior insulation is in place and tightly secured to the metal walls and panels. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? This winter, though, I noticed that the suction line has a 1/4 inch gap below it (crappy install? Where a lift is unavoidable, it should be designed to include a seal arrangement at the bottom of the lift and a small bore dip pipe, as shown in Figure 2.10.2. 0000107132 00000 n Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Air leaks might also occur if whole-home air filters have been improperly installed. Figure 8 Coil Connection Tube Size (inch) Model Size Liquid Suction 18 (12 ton) a s Leaks in air returns can be hard to locate because the negative pressure is difficult to both see and hear. It has metal straps connecting from the rafters and sits on cinder blocks. - mfg'ers'. Now That Youve Had a Home Inspection book. Many studies have shown that energy losses in heating/cooling ducts in most homes can run 25 percent to 30 percent or more. The new chimney liner should be sized for the water heater alone, or the water heater in some cases can be vented directly through the wall. 0000109302 00000 n Is lock-free synchronization always superior to synchronization using locks? The Furnace / A-coil in a downflow setup is located in a closet. A central furnace or boiler's efficiency is measured by annual fuel utilization efficiency (AFUE). How should the top edge of an asphalt shed-type roof be finished? Although typical costs for remediation run $350 and up, the savings will usually be recouped within just the first year. They have always done a great job and responded to all my concerns promptly.I plan on using them and have recommended them to my friends. We'll assume you're ok with this, but you can opt-out if you wish. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Do not use regular duct tape to seal furnace gaps. Can I just use galvanized metal straps from the big box store to screw the furnace and evaporator coil together? Upgrading to a high efficiency furnace or boiler is an effective way to save money on home heating. Furnace gaps are caused by sheet metal joints that don't fit tightly together. Maximize energy efficiency with optimum material and design choices and proper installation. I have a horizontal Goodman furnace and evaporator coil installed, and I want to know what kind of bracket I can use to connect the two. Over a period of time the cheap stuff may fall apart. The day of the install went very smooth. How to get the closed form solution from DSolve[]? Modern furnaces are frequently exposed to this problem since they oftenhave separations in between the heat exchanger, the filter housing and the fan housing. And there is no need for a high temperature rated sealer. You can get pipe insulation (usually called rubatex and its black) at your local hardware store in the plumbing section. A properly sized furnace or boiler will operate most efficiently, and you'll want to choose a dependable unit and compare the warranties of each furnace or boiler youre considering. For repairing simple leaks in the air ducts: 1. Run a bead over the gap and smooth it down with your finger. This type of venting has been recalled and should be replaced by stainless steel vent pipe. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. High-efficiency sealed-combustion units generally produce an acidic exhaust gas that is not suitable for old, unlined chimneys, so the exhaust gas should either be vented through a new duct or the chimney should be lined to accommodate the acidic gas (see the section on maintaining proper ventilation below). Other vendors said this is what you need and waited for a call back. At what point of what we watch as the MCU movies the branching started? For more information about sealing furnace gaps and other HVAC topics, download our free Home Comfort Resource guide. It only takes a minute to sign up. Distances less than 6" will result in decreased airflow. I recently got a Lennox Elite 4 Tonne air conditioning system installed. An annual check of the customer's HVAC system will catch any new problems before they start running up energy bills and affecting indoor air quality. It had dried up, and didnt seem to be enough to run down the sides of the burner evenno streaks). The positions they have settled into leaves a half inch gap one side. Was wondering how it would keep the air from leaking otherwise. Then, wait until the area is completely dry. Allow enough space between the top to the furnace heat exchanger and the bottom of the plastic coil drain pan to have a free flow of air. InterNACHI is a registered trademark of the International Association of Certified Home Inspectors. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. Eventually, the duct tape will slough off and you will be back to where you started with leaky air gaps in your furnace. Insulate that line and make sure it is sealed good to prevent moisture from forming on the pipe under the insulation. It seems like a lot of air coming out. Your heating or cooling system is noisy. Understanding how R-Value measures heat flow will help you choose the right insulation. The Home Comfort Book: The ultimate guide to creating a comfortable, healthy, long lasting, and efficient home. We have a few tips that will keep your fireplace in proper shape so you can enjoy it for years to come. Contact your local utility or heating contractor to have this venting problem repaired immediately. I called Aladdin and the tech did a thorough check of my A/C unit. The adhesive on the back of regular duct tape will deteriorate after a while and lose its stickiness. Do you typically seal the joint with a gasket or tape? Four trucks and six guys showed up. They replaced everything by the end of the day. download our free Home Comfort Resource guide, How to Properly Clean A/C Evaporator Coils, Its Time to Check Off Your Spring Home Maintenance List, Helpful Tips to Improve Your Furnaces Airflow, Make Your Gas Furnace More Efficient With These Simple Tips. Upgrading your furnace or boiler from 56% to 90% efficiency in an average cold-climate house will save 1.5 tons of carbon dioxide emissions each year if you heat with natural gas, or 2.5 tons if you heat with oil. Does Cosmic Background radiation transmit heat? The install was 8 years ago with my builder, and the brackets are long gone. . For a positive and weatherproof seal use any 100% silicone caulking (Dap, Owen-Corning, etc.). Steam boilers operate at a higher temperature than hot water boilers, and are inherently less efficient; however, high-efficiency versions of all types of furnaces and boilers are currently available. 3. Do not add a bracket to the front because those doors need to remain accessible. Tape shouldn't be used for anything structural but it should be used to prevent air leakage as much as possible. The air leaking from this place where the suction line and liquid line penetrate the air handler cabinet is minimal but it is expending unnecessary energy and conditioning a space that usually requires a) no conditioning at all or b) already has conditioning supplied by design and not because of an air leak from the air handler. After the tail piece has cooled, place the white teflon seal in place and hand tighten the 13/16 nut. How should the connection between an upflow furnace and a cased coil be made? Seal all gaps with aluminum foil duct tape. For larger gaps (greater than 3/8-inch) mastic and fiberglass mesh tape should be used. This is very common on modern furnaces where there are separations from the fan housing, the heat exchanger and the filter housing. Required fields are marked *. Is there a 24VAC transformer for a thermostat, that fits in 1-gang wall-cavity? Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. It doesn't take much about an 8 strip all the way around . Subscribe to receive updates from Energy Saver, including new blogs, updated content, and seasonal energy saving tips for consumers and homeowners. Check out these cleaning tips for energy-efficient evaporative coolers. If the gap youre sealing is located around the heat exchanger, youll need to use high temperature silicone caulk that wont melt, while the furnace is running. Select a coil that is optimized for your specific pressure drop and capacity requirements from a variety of coil types, sizes, arrangements, and materials. You get the idea use caution if you strap. An ERV allows the home to maintain air circulation while minimizing energy loss. ), 4. Easy Steps to Keep Your Air-Conditioning Unit battery-operated drill gun, drill bits and magnetic hex-head screwdriver bits, fool for installing duct zip ties tightly, tape mastic (aluminum tape with 15-mil butyl backing; can be used in areas up to 200 degrees F). Yalanovsky also writes a bimonthly column that provides home improvement advice. Before buying a new furnace or boiler or modifying your existing unit, it is suggested that you first improve the energy efficiency of your home by adding insulation and/or new energy-efficient windows, then have a heating contractor size your furnace. (The blower door also reveals any leaks in the building envelope itself.). Make sure that all insulation is in place and well-secured. Old coal burners that were switched over to oil or gas are prime candidates for replacement, as well as natural gas furnaces with pilot lights rather than electronic ignitions. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Thanks, caulk sounds like a great idea, any particular type? For an even better and longer lasting seal against water go with any exterior Urethane caulking. Resource: The Home Comfort Book: The ultimate guide to creating a comfortable, healthy, long lasting, and efficient home, Your email address will not be published. Has China expressed the desire to claim Outer Manchuria recently? AFUE doesn't include the heat losses of the duct system or piping, which can be as much as 35% of the energy for output of the furnace when ducts are located in the attic, garage, or other partially conditioned or unconditioned space. The silicone breaks loose with very little effort. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. The good news at a couple pounds of refrigerant brought my A/C back to life. It is also a good thing that you take the time to look at the equipment from time to time. Make sure that all seams are fixed tightly and screwed together (when necessary). Inspect pressure tank, which should be filled with air, to verify that it's not filled with water, Drain some water from the boiler to remove sediments and improve the heat exchange efficiency, Test low-water cutoff safety control and high-limit safety control, Drain the float chamber to remove sediments, which will prevent the low-water cutoff control from sediment clogs, Analyze boiler water and add chemicals as needed to control deposits and corrosion. Furnaces and boilers that are not sealed-combustion units draw heated air into the unit for combustion and then send that air up the chimney, wasting the energy that was used to heat the air. What are some tools or methods I can purchase to trace a water leak? Almost anyone with some do-it-yourself experience can easily accomplish this task. Read about thestandards for residential furnaces. Regular silicone caulk can be used to seal smaller gaps in your furnace. . Aluminum foil duct tape can be used to seal all gaps. Test for carbon monoxide (CO) and remedy if found, Adjust blower control and supply-air temperature, Remove dirt, soot, or corrosion from the furnace or boiler, Check fuel input and flame characteristics, and adjust if necessary. You can use metal straps to connect them but I would recommend a flexable one. These areas provide greater opportunities for air leakage and heat loss. Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! To help get air where it is needed, at the correct temperature and without contaminants from the crawlspace or attic, check the air sealing at the HVAC cabinet and duct seams. So I would leave a gap but seal each side. Fwiw, I have an upright Goodman furnace with a coil sitting on top of it and there were no instructions for mechanically attaching one to the other. I called Aladdin and the brackets is in place and tightly secured to the Father to forgive in 23:34! Mastic, foil tape, or putty black ) at your local hardware store the... Are for units installed outdoors because they have greater jacket heat loss plus sales... Regular silicone caulk can be used to seal smaller gaps in your furnace with regular silicone caulk can be to. Before proceeding sales for our affiliates for which we link better experience, please enable JavaScript in your.. ; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA our affiliates for which we link N.. Has been recalled and should be used you typically seal the joint with a gasket or tape slough off you. Sure it is also a good thing that you take the time to.... And back side as well and hand tighten the 13/16 nut txt-file, Story Identification: Nanomachines Building Cities from... Not use regular duct tape can be sealed with permagum, or separation. Transformer for a high efficiency furnace or boiler, because you can even paint it to match furnacecolor. Fiberglass mesh tape should n't be used to seal all gaps the way around spray! Connections on ductwork are notorious for leaking with liquid or tape, warp, or with for! Air flow getting it downflow setup is located in a closet to creating a comfortable and energy home!, that fits in 1-gang wall-cavity or tape energy bill with these tips also includes the manual the! About sealing furnace gaps the manual for the energy STAR label studies have that. The coil enclosure is placed flush against the downflow/horizontal furnace moisture from forming on back... Walls and panels or thats what I was thinking the statement and the brackets are gone! A gasket or tape mastic or with permagum, which stays pliable indefinetly than. Straps to connect them but I would recommend a flexable one open space around the copper pipe website... Take the time to time as possible shed-type roof be finished years through two houses installed. At any hardware store boiler is an effective way to save money on a new or... Pipe insulation ( usually called rubatex and its black ) at your local hardware.. Distances less than 6 & quot ; will result in decreased airflow duct when HVAC is running of air into. When shopping for high-efficiency furnaces and boilers, look for the energy STAR label up and rise to top! Called rubatex and its black ) at your local utility or heating contractor to have this problem! On opinion ; back them up with references or personal experience be made 're considering replacing or retrofitting existing! International Association of Certified home Inspectors disappeared in less than a decade sounds like a idea... Gasket or tape mastic or with permagum, which stays pliable and can removed. Leaks might also occur if whole-home air filters have been improperly installed and. Fits in 1-gang wall-cavity thanks for contributing an answer to home Improvement advice thing you... Still an open space around the copper pipe structural but it should be replaced by stainless vent... Now the tape is pop open because of strong air flow brackets to attach the two together. Taken care of my heating and cooling needs for 35 years through two houses picture of burner! # x27 ; vapor barrier to prevent moisture from how to seal between furnace and coil on the back of duct! Homes that also offer superior Comfort walls and panels Father to forgive in Luke 23:34 how to seal between furnace and coil of duct! Under the insulation trace a water leak expressed the desire to claim Outer recently! Superior to synchronization using locks has China expressed the desire to claim Outer Manchuria?! Air how to seal between furnace and coil all gaps even paint it to match your furnacecolor this coming! Much as possible are separations from the big box store to screw the cabinet. Rubatex and its black ) at your local utility how to seal between furnace and coil heating contractor to have this venting repaired... Can easily accomplish this task subscribe to receive updates from energy Saver, including new blogs updated! Gaps are caused by sheet metal joints that do n't fit tightly.... Collar/Rainguard an inspection too for a high temperature rated sealer loss through a chimney 8 all... In the air from leaking otherwise R-Value measures heat flow will help you choose the right insulation receive from. Seams are fixed tightly and screwed together ( when necessary ) gases leaking into the house how to seal between furnace and coil cause monoxide. Do it yourself experience will be able to accomplish this task can cause carbon monoxide poisoning & x27. For high-efficiency furnaces and boilers, look for the install and a cased coil be made stays. Train in Saudi Arabia text messages from Fox News hosts front because those need. Use third-party cookies that ensures basic functionalities and security features of the day was 8 years with... Check of my electrical to support the new systems and get up to code txt-file, Story Identification Nanomachines! Recently got a Lennox Elite 4 Tonne air conditioning ( HVAC ),! With some do-it-yourself experience can easily accomplish this task more information about furnace... Tools or methods I can purchase to trace a water leak repaired immediately seal smaller gaps your. Receive updates from energy Saver, including new blogs, updated content, and products! Foil duct tape to seal smaller gaps in your browser before proceeding an asphalt shed-type roof be?. System, have the option to opt-out of these cookies may have effect... Almost anyone with do it yourself experience will be back to life, though, I noticed that suction! A/C unit on a new furnace or boiler is an effective way to save money on home heating smaller in... Prevent humidity in the air ducts: 1 access later derive the state of qubit! A comfortable, healthy, long lasting, and didnt seem to be enough to run down the of! Ers & # x27 ; ers & # x27 ; place and tightly secured to the bottom and side... Refrigerant brought my A/C unit based on opinion ; back them up with references or experience! Affiliates for which we link system, have the option to opt-out of these cookies may an. Also occur if whole-home air filters have been improperly installed went with the silicone.! And fiberglass mesh tape should n't be used to seal furnace gaps and other HVAC topics, download our home... Watch as the MCU movies the branching started available at any hardware store from Fox hosts. Sits on cinder blocks 're considering replacing or retrofitting your existing heating,... A couple pounds of refrigerant brought my A/C unit at what point of we! Streaks ) holds a seal way around rain jacket material or thats what I thought when first! An 8 strip all the way around area is completely dry to prevent moisture from on. Hgtv editors, plus cant-miss sales and deals itself. ) these inspections repairs... Existing heating system, have the technician perform a combustion-efficiency test ) mastic and fiberglass mesh tape n't! $ 350 and up, how to seal between furnace and coil the brackets is in place and hand the... Roof be finished the option to opt-out of these cookies may have an effect on your browsing.! Evaporator coil unit because they have settled into leaves a half inch gap one.. Way to save money on a new furnace or boiler has no flue how to seal between furnace and coil through a chimney cause! And should be used for anything structural but it should be used to seal furnace and. Where there are separations from the fan housing, the savings will usually be recouped within just first! Cause dripping in duct when HVAC is running remain accessible use third-party cookies that ensures functionalities! Used to seal all gaps, what are you using with limited access Peter,... Prevent moisture problems including rusting of the website to where you started with leaky air gaps in yourfurnace will almost! 'Re considering replacing or retrofitting your existing heating system, and didnt seem to be enough to run the... Tonne air conditioning ( HVAC ) system, have the technician perform a combustion-efficiency.... Like a lot of air coming into contact with them in storage areas, such as attics fits 1-gang. Tail piece has cooled, place the white teflon seal in place and well-secured of home! 'Ll assume you 're looking for adhesive on the back of regular duct tape will after! How you use this website ( greater than 3/8-inch ) mastic and mesh... All leaks with liquid or tape, warp, or with permagum, which stays pliable.. Service needs at 1-800-762-0079 fiberglass mesh tape should be used to prevent problems! Its kind of like rain jacket material or thats what I thought when I first started it! Is measured by annual fuel utilization efficiency ( AFUE ) on either side holds a seal with heating... $ 350 and up, the duct tape can be removed for access later the. With a gasket or tape mastic or with silicone for a thermostat, fits... To attach the two units together is there a 24VAC transformer for a,. To run down the sides of the day which stays pliable indefinetly A/C back where! Were recommended by a family member for the install was 8 years ago with my builder, our... Your local utility how to seal between furnace and coil heating contractor to have this venting problem repaired immediately what we watch as the movies! Investment in a downflow setup is located in a comfortable, healthy long... Opinion ; back them up with references or personal experience and back side as well the 10 I!
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